Coilovers v conventional uprated suspension

[Brian2503]

Hi, this is my first posting to this forum.
I've just purchased my son his first car, a 1999 Corsa 1.7D. A tidy little car with alloys, sunroof, 12 months MOT and six months tax all for just £400, which I think is quite reasonable.
My son has now presented me with his "wish list", which includes a body kit, bigger alloys, lowered suspension, big exhaust etc etc.
The standard suspension although functional and not leaking is in my opinion past it's sell by date and is a bit soft and bouncy so this will be the first thing to get done.
My question is which is most suitable, a coilover set up or a conventional set up with uprated shocks and lowered springs? We are looking at about 60mm lower, any more than that and I reckon we'll have trouble with speed bumps. I've also noticed some kits that offer 60mm front 40mm rear lowering, what is the reasoning or advantages of that over say 60mm all round.
The car is purely for road use which is why I'm leaning towards the uprated conventional set up as opposed to coilovers. I do know the advantages of an uprated conventional set up, in my youth I had a highly tuned Ford Escort Mk2 RS2000 fitted with lowered springs and uprated Bilstein shocks all round but I would welcome any advice from someone that may have used either or possibly even both set ups on a Corsa.

Many thanks
Brian

[matty101]

if he is wanting big alloys i wudnt recomend coilovers. reason being when i had coilovers fitted to mine the bottom adjusters rubbed on my front two tyres without me knowing and within 2 hours of driving they had alsmost worn right through the tyres.
alot of people seem to hav this problem and theres not really alot you can do about it.
i personally changed from coilovers to the "conventional" lowering springs and uprated shocks and have no problems what so ever. if anything i would say it handles better and i prefere the stance of the car now.

as for big body kits and huge big alloys, get your son to sign up. he'll soon see that modified cars arent about big body kits and 42 inch alloys any more. 90% of people on forums such as this one will tell you that corsa's suit the more sutle approuch.

also im guessin if its his first car he's only young and wont hav long passed his test. i wud get an insurence quote, it wont be cheap for a 1.7.

i would like to say somthing along the lines of, dont go buying everything for your son or he wont appreciate it and will most likely thrash his car to fook, and working for the money to buy and modifiy his car will make him appreciate it alot more. but i will bite my tounge. just my oppinion.

[PRICER]

iv used both setup's, and i would say go for the coilovers all the time!! because you can adjust the camber angle instead of replacing your tyres every four months like i was, but i was doing 300 miles a week, due to the inside edge being the main contact point and wearing away quickly. plus you can buy them quite cheap aswell my set i just bought of ebay were like £155 for coilovers for the front, and springs and adjusters for the back, but iv left the adjusters out so it sits lower check out my build thread for ideas of a car on coilovers, but you do have to make sure your using vauxhall wheels with 195 tyres on the front because any wider and you do catch the front strut.

[matty101]

haha got much clearence harv?

[PRICER]

take a look at the photos, but no not really, im literally about 3 maybe 4 mm away from the tyre, but least it fits and looks sweeeeeeet

[matty101]

lol i duno how u do it, i wudnt feel safe at all driving round knowing i have less than 5mm clearence between them

[Brian2503]

Thanks Matty101 and Pricer for your replies.

I have to agree with Matty about tyre clearance, I wouldn't be happy with such a minimal clearance, all it needs is an underinflated tyre and that clearance is gone. As the car is for my son I'd sleep better at night knowing that there is plenty of clearance so an uprated conventional set up will be fitted. Any camber angle change due to fitting the suspension kit will be minimal if not zero, so I can't see that being a problem.

As for my question about 60mm front/40mm rear lowering kits, I've had a look at the car and a couple of other Corsa's, the gap between top of the tyre and front wheel arch is greater than that at the rear giving the appearance that the front rides high, so am I right in assuming that the 60mm/40mm split is to give the car the appearance of a more level ride height?

Matty101: I'm with you on the more subtle approach to modifying, especially on the Corsa B as in my opinion it's already a good looking car. My advice to my son is to use the sporty exterior trim from say a Gsi together with a set of nice but not overly large wheels and tyres. That way it will look good but not attract the unwanted attention of idiots and the local Constabulary.
You are right it is his first car, he's only 17 and hasn't passed his test yet, the plan is to get the car ready for when he does. He's always wanted a Corsa and this diesel came up for just £400, I've seen similar cars of the same year going for over £1000, so what has been saved on buying the car can go towards the extra insurance costs on the diesel. A 1.0L 12v was going to cost him about £2200 in insurance, bloody ridiculous in my opinion. What is even more amazing and ridiculous is I used all his information but changed it from male to female, every quote came out about £800 to £900 cheaper!!!
We bought the car for him but it's his hard earned money paying for any modifications. I used to be a mechanic so it would be easy for me to do the work, but he's the one getting dirty, I'm just going to be instructing and overseeing mainly. It's how I learn't how do it and as I said to my son "one day your Dad is going to be too old to grovel under cars, so unless money is no object you need to know how to fix your car if you want to keep it on the road!"

thanks again for the replies

Brian

[matty101]

glad to here tht, to many people these days get mammy and daddy to pay for it all or parents insist they will pay for it, why?

just cos they turn 17 doesnt mean they have to or should learn to drive.

u didnt pay them a prostitute when they turned 16 did you?



anyway goodluck and keep us updated with your progress.

[PRICER]

you'l be suprised about how much the camber angle is affected after lowering 60mm, i only had mine lowered 40mm and i was going through tyres piece of piss, right down until they were slicks, and since having coilovers on both my mk1 caddy and my corsa since the start of the year, im still on my first set of tyres so i would recommend coilovers a million times over standard shocks and springs.

[matty101]

camber adjusting bolts? u can get them for like a tenner lol

[Brian2503]

Thanks for that, Pricer
I've now got one for coilovers and one for the conventional setup, just need a tie breaker now!!!
I've never had camber problems when fitting lowered suspension kits but saying that I've only ever fitted them to rear wheel drive cars, so maybe front wheel drive is what makes the difference, a bit more research is in order I think.
The car at the moment is sitting on standard Vauxhall 13" alloys, with 165 70 13 rubber, so clearance with the coilovers shouldn't be a problem. At some point it will get bigger wheels and tyres, probably up to 14" with either 175 60 14 or 185 60 14 rubber to keep the rolling circumference of the tyres as close as possible to the standard 13". My son would like to go to 15" but then you get into the more expensive 55 and 50 series tyres and in my opinion a pretty crappy ride. My wife has a Honda Civic which came with 17" rims and 45 series tyres as standard, the ride is awful and it "tramlines" all over the place. At the end of the day it's my sons money paying for the mods I just want to make sure his money is spent wisely and safely.
As a matter of interest, what size wheels and tyres are you running, Pricer?

Brian

PS I've just seen Matty101's comment about camber adjusting bolts, I wondered if they were available for the Corsa, saves me a bit of research time, thanks.

[matty101]

yes mate they are, try sites like ebay, corsasport(watch out for scammers) and migweb. and im sure theres tons of other places do them.

i think your tie breaker is the fact the 90% of people on the site hav lowering springs and shocks as appose to coilovers.

i deffinatly prefere mine to the coilovers i had, i hav been told by several people tht its a smoother ride but yet seems stiffer through the corners thou.....

[PRICER]

camber adjusting bolts are only and good if you'v got elongated holes tho, you cant use them on standard setup's because they'v only got the single hole and not like the coilovers which have the elongated hole for adjusting the camber, all they do is give you a more accuracy when setting up the camber on coilovers.

[matty101]

he's made up his mind mate lol got a pm earlyer

i've never had a problem with camber and if i did my set up has the elongated holes. look at all the problems me, you, duncan and now liam have had with coilovers, since i've got rid of mine i've never had any problems.

[Brian2503]

Just when I think I've got things sorted one of you two guys comes up with something that makes me have a rethink! LOL
After a bit of research I've now found some camber bolts that are suitable for non slotted struts, if I need them, they can give a camber change of up to +/- 1.75 degrees.

I really appreciate the advice I've had from both of you (Matty101 and Pricer) but the decision is an uprated conventional setup. Not an easy decision thanks to you two! LOL
A number of factors have made me decide to use the conventional setup:
1. Sons first car so keep any mods as simple as possible plus the concerns about adequate clearance between coilover and tyre.
2. We live in the wilds of Cumbria, where some of the country roads have potholes deep enough to swallow a Corsa and some of the towns have speed humps so high you've got mountain goats on top of them! So the car would never be dropped low enough to take advantage of what the coilovers can offer.
3. It's a 1.7D, not exactly the quickest of Corsa's and personally I think that a coilover setup for this particular car would be more of a "fashion statement" rather than offer any real advantage over a conventional setup. No disrespect intended to your setup, Pricer.

Thanks again for your help guys

Brian