2000 1.0 X10XE, Uneven Running/Mis-Fire Help Reqd
Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:09 pm
Hello
Sorry this is a bit long.
Just read through a previous posting of a mis-fire and I was going to tag onto that, but maybe what I have isn't quite the same and I didn't want to take over somebody else's call for help.
Not having had one of these engined cars before, or not having been in another, I don't know what is normal/abnormal behaviour. The car is my sons. Its a first car and has done 72k miles.
First of all, the car starts fine and at all times. We fitted a new timing chain when we got it as this was noisy. It went straight forwardly.
It also pulls well and will accelerate upto whatever speed you want (ok within reason), and it does not feel limited. It is also doing around 50 miles to the gallon.
However
There is a definite vibration from the engine that feels like a misfire. This effect has possibly been there since we got the car a couple of months ago, but there was always a vibration evident at idle (from the drivers seat anyway, it could not be felt from the passengers point of view) and so I had the front right hand engine mount replaced just before its MOT, which it flew through only a couple of days ago. The new mounting however has highlighted the problem.
A summary of my symptoms and investigation work so far....
Starting fine. All conditions.
Idle speed 900 - 950 when warm. A little faster immediately after startup (say 1100)
Evident mis-firing (or uneven running).
Spark plug ceramics are very white, but all clean (no signs of oil). New BOSCH twin earth electrode plugs fitted.
Car uses no oil or water.
Car pulls OK (without comparison to a similar car it sems OK).
Compression test (tested hot and allowing several cycles to get the peak values) in order cyls 1,2,3 are 9.2, 10, 10.5 (Bar).
No MIL lights showing (and the light does come on before start during the self test period so it does work).
I haven't done the 'paperclip test' yet for engine codes. Certainly my mates or my universal code reader won't work with it.
From the MOT emmissions test, idle CO = 0.07%, fast idle 0.05% (is it running on fresh air?). Fast idle HC = 11 PPM, Lambda = 1.00
Anecdotal impressions and general points ...
There is vibration evidence of a mis-fire or partial at idle and it feels regular. It certainly feels regular mid range, but at higher rpms you wouldn't notice it.
I feel the mis-fire is also evident when you lift off and it overuns back down to idle. If it was an ignition/injector problem I wouldn't notice this would I?
Am I doing the compression test correctly? Should I hold the pressure relief valve on the tester and get an impression of the peaks on individual strokes?
(never done it that way before tho I must say).
I have read about issues with the crank sensor, but it starts fine, every time.
Coil packs can be as problem, but I have no fouled plugs. They all look identical.
Is it a MAF problem?
Is it the Lambda sensor?
Is it the ECU (code reader won't work - tried 2 different ones and neither can establish communication)?
Is the engine toast?
Any help/ideas greatly appreciated.
Cheers... Rob.
Sorry this is a bit long.
Just read through a previous posting of a mis-fire and I was going to tag onto that, but maybe what I have isn't quite the same and I didn't want to take over somebody else's call for help.
Not having had one of these engined cars before, or not having been in another, I don't know what is normal/abnormal behaviour. The car is my sons. Its a first car and has done 72k miles.
First of all, the car starts fine and at all times. We fitted a new timing chain when we got it as this was noisy. It went straight forwardly.
It also pulls well and will accelerate upto whatever speed you want (ok within reason), and it does not feel limited. It is also doing around 50 miles to the gallon.
However
There is a definite vibration from the engine that feels like a misfire. This effect has possibly been there since we got the car a couple of months ago, but there was always a vibration evident at idle (from the drivers seat anyway, it could not be felt from the passengers point of view) and so I had the front right hand engine mount replaced just before its MOT, which it flew through only a couple of days ago. The new mounting however has highlighted the problem.
A summary of my symptoms and investigation work so far....
Starting fine. All conditions.
Idle speed 900 - 950 when warm. A little faster immediately after startup (say 1100)
Evident mis-firing (or uneven running).
Spark plug ceramics are very white, but all clean (no signs of oil). New BOSCH twin earth electrode plugs fitted.
Car uses no oil or water.
Car pulls OK (without comparison to a similar car it sems OK).
Compression test (tested hot and allowing several cycles to get the peak values) in order cyls 1,2,3 are 9.2, 10, 10.5 (Bar).
No MIL lights showing (and the light does come on before start during the self test period so it does work).
I haven't done the 'paperclip test' yet for engine codes. Certainly my mates or my universal code reader won't work with it.
From the MOT emmissions test, idle CO = 0.07%, fast idle 0.05% (is it running on fresh air?). Fast idle HC = 11 PPM, Lambda = 1.00
Anecdotal impressions and general points ...
There is vibration evidence of a mis-fire or partial at idle and it feels regular. It certainly feels regular mid range, but at higher rpms you wouldn't notice it.
I feel the mis-fire is also evident when you lift off and it overuns back down to idle. If it was an ignition/injector problem I wouldn't notice this would I?
Am I doing the compression test correctly? Should I hold the pressure relief valve on the tester and get an impression of the peaks on individual strokes?
(never done it that way before tho I must say).
I have read about issues with the crank sensor, but it starts fine, every time.
Coil packs can be as problem, but I have no fouled plugs. They all look identical.
Is it a MAF problem?
Is it the Lambda sensor?
Is it the ECU (code reader won't work - tried 2 different ones and neither can establish communication)?
Is the engine toast?
Any help/ideas greatly appreciated.
Cheers... Rob.